Content, AI, and the Future: A Conversation with Chris Dell

Key Insights from the Interview

Content is No Longer Just Written – It's Visual and Dynamic

Chris highlighted how the internet has transformed into a highly visual space. While text-based content was once dominant, platforms like Instagram and TikTok have changed consumer behavior. Travel content, in particular, thrives on authentic, immersive visual storytelling.

“Back in 2010, when I joined Booking.com, our focus was on written content. But soon, we realized that the internet was becoming highly visual. Now, we're in a world of visual saturation.”

AI and Machine Learning Are Reshaping Content Strategy

With AI and automation becoming mainstream, brands face new challenges in scaling content while maintaining quality and authenticity. Chris sees Machine Learning (ML) as a key tool for tagging, organizing, and classifying content, making it easier to surface the right content at the right time.

“There’s more content in the world than ever before. AI can help manage scale, but human oversight remains critical for maintaining quality and trust.”

Personalization: Finding the Right Balance

Chris shared his thoughts on how much brands should personalize content vs. maintaining a consistent brand identity. While platforms like Amazon excel at tailoring recommendations, travel content requires a different approach.

“Someone booking a solo business trip has very different needs from someone planning a honeymoon. Personalization matters, but it needs to align with brand identity.”

The Human Element: Why Trust Still Matters

In an era of deepfakes and AI-generated content, authenticity remains a competitive advantage. Chris believes that despite technological advances, high-quality, well-researched content will always win.

“People will always seek out quality. The brands that consistently deliver trustworthy, relevant content will be the ones that succeed.”

Watch the full interview below:

Full transcript:

Mike: Hi, Chris.

Chris: Hey, Mike. How's it going?

Mike: Going well. Well, welcome here in Paris. I hope you're enjoying your time here.

Chris: Always lovely in Paris.

Mike: Super excited to have you. And I think just to introduce you a little bit, you're somebody who's really interesting to talk to because you have 25 years in content, 20 plus years. Most recently on Booking.com, managing a team of over 400 across 45 countries, which I don't even know if I know 400 people. And even prior to that, working in publishing, working in art, you have a fine art background.

Chris: Yeah, I do, indeed. Not a traditional pathway. It's been a really peculiar path. I always say I'm an opportunist, you know. Sometimes interesting stuff comes along. I recognize it. I jump on it. Fantastic. And it takes me in some kind of interesting new direction. But I mean, I think you're completely right. The kind of red thread through my life has basically been content and communication. And that's something I'm kind of super passionate about.

Mike: I was really interested in knowing, because it's the week of Halloween. I actually just ordered two of your books.

Chris: Oh, seriously, right? Oh, that's so funny.

Mike: Monsters and I think Witchcraft. Illustrations are amazingly beautiful.

Chris: Awesome.

Mike: But for a week of Halloween, I'm hoping to share that a little bit with my family.

Chris: Amazing.

Mike: I'll have to get you to sign them or something next time you're around.

Chris: Oh, that's so funny. Yeah, Monsters came out in 2010, but it's still in print. Which I think is incredible. 14 years later, I never expected that. I don't know how many. I think it sold like 100,000 copies or something crazy globally. And then the Magic, Witchcraft, and the Occult book has just done also, like, there's been so much interest in this topic. And people are always very surprised. They always think, okay, there must just be, like, two Chris Dells. How do you marry these two things together? And the answer is, I don't.I have a part of me that's constantly thinking about, like, alchemy and the occult and all these kind of interesting things. And then this part of me, which is thinking about content strategy and leadership and a whole bunch of other topics, yeah.

Mike: What are you using from this other Chris Dell?

Chris: This is such an interesting question because when I joined booking, it was a shock.I basically went from kind of publishing background. You see, I worked for book publishing in London for quite a few yearsand then started writing books. And book publishing is basically, shall we say, like educated betting, right? You're basically saying, I think two years from now, that's more or less what it takes to kind of write and produce a book. I think there's going to be a market for this kind of product, for this sort of price point, for this sort of audience. And I also think that no one else is going to bring out a superior product in an interesting time. It's kind of gambling. You never quite know whether a book's going to be successful. I joined booking understanding content from that perspective, right? The publishing editorial perspective. I believe I know what people want. And in booking, I hit this kind of culture, which is only about data. Only about, not what people want, but how people behave on the platform. And we're talking about 2010, and booking was really kind of ahead of the curve at that point in terms of running A, B tests, et cetera. I mean, really, they're kind of very deep in the culture, the idea of experimentation, having the data to validate positions, building robust hypotheses, et cetera. It was just a world away from publishing, which really is just, yeah, I think that's the direction we should go in. I mean, booking is famous for running many, many, many A, B experiments, right? And just kind of learning, this kind of very iterative learning, which is incredibly cool. It was completely new to me. It's very, very fast. And if I go back many, many years in booking, literally, we were setting quarterly objectives. So not even like annual objectives, but quarterly objectives, because we want to test and learn, test and learn. It's an amazing, very exciting, exhilarating environment, but also, you know, challenging.

Mike: But I think what would be really interesting is just, I mean, it's a very basic question, but I think it's interesting to hear from your perspective. Why does content even matter to, you know, to hotel brands, to OTAs? Just why does it, why should we even care about that?

Chris: Really interesting question, because you could argue that many e-commerce platforms, they are, can be a little bit kind of anti-content in the sense that they're very much about throughput, right? If you think of like, you know, like Amazon or something like that. But indeed, many of the online travel agents, you know, fundamentally, they're about making sure that customers can find the right product for them as quickly and efficiently as possible. The assumption is people don't want to spend vast amounts of time finding the right product. And actually, you don't necessarily want to put too much content in the way of someone to distract them or confuse them or et cetera. It really is, you know, it needs to be something that's kind of much more immediate. I think when I joined Booking, it was interesting. Like, our focus actually was on written content. It was on making sure there were really good descriptions in multiple languages of all the different kind of products we were selling. And then it was soon after I joined that we started to realize, hang on, the internet is becoming a lot more visual. If you think of like Instagram, right? It was founded in 2010. So it's the same year I joined Booking. And up until that point, and it kind of seems weird to talk about it now, or think of it now, but the internet really wasn't a very visual place because of bandwidth, because of, you know, just access to, you know, digital cameras and things like that, and many reasons. About 2010 onwards, we started to get more and more interest in visual content. And of course, it becomes then more immediate. You know, people can capture, they understand exactly what the product's about immediately. These days, of course, we're in a world of, you know, visual saturation. There is vast amounts of visual content. Very, very in quality. And of course, then we have, you know, kind of video, et cetera. It's been fascinating for me, actually, to see social media channels, you know, kind ofgradually switch to video. They become almost kind of entertainment. So the nature of content has changed. On e-commerce platforms, actually, it's relatively the same. You look at Amazon. Fundamentally, they're still relying on very static, simple images that just describe the product extremely well. It's still about trust. It's still about transparency. It's still about honesty. It's still about consumer confidence. And when you think, I mean, the visual space and content, the tech space, in the terms of humans, the visual space online is very young. And it's accelerating.

Mike: Do you think there's opportunity there for the travel industry to exploit it even more?

Chris: It's a very, very interesting question. I think the travel industry, and I'm going to say, like, the industry in the broadest possible sense. So, you know, not just the OTAs and not just, you know, the kind of hotels, but restaurants all the way through to, like, travel influencers. And so if you look at the totality of that, right, they're exploiting every type of content possible. And I think the travel industry has really kind of lends itself to high-quality content, particularly the kind of very experiential end of things. And now I think of all the travel influencers. I mean, that's been a huge kind of growth, right? In the past, you know, from travel bloggers, maybe, like, 10, 15 years ago through to these days, you know, the kind of 30-second, kind of reels and stuff like this, which get insane numbers of views. Why? Because they're authentic. You know, they're fun. They're immediately engaging. So I think the nature of content has evolved massively, and I'd say every type of content is being used right now across the travel space. It really depends on what you are looking for. And if I put it in, like, marketing terms, you know, where are you in the funnel? You know, are you looking for inspiration? Are you looking for entertainment? That's very, kind of, upper funnel, very high up in the funnel. Or indeed, are you looking for, no, I know exactly where I want to go, and I know when I want to go. And I know who I'm going with, and I know what their tastes are. And actually, I'm just looking for something that kind of really kind of clicks to that. In which case, it's, you know, you're some way down the funnel. You're pretty decided already, and it's just a question of finding the right product. Be that hotel, be that restaurant, be that, you know, whatever it is. If I think of myself, I'm super fussy. Like, I'm really looking for that perfect fit when I'm at that point in the funnel. And then I go to the photos, of course, because it's just kind of so immediate. It’s funny, I used to read all the descriptions and everything. Now, I just look at the photos. And if they tell me the right story, I'm good with it.

Mike: That's interesting. I think there's, when I've talked to other people, it's been really interesting to show, obviously, with the internet and digital tools, there's a higher ability to sort of deliver the right content to the right people. But you talk about that whole funnel, and I wonder, what are the challenges of a brand to be able to deliver that content at different places, but then also maintain the strong brand identity in multiple markets, you know, and really then end up delivering on the promise at the other end as well?

Chris: Yeah, really interesting topic, because there's more content in the world than ever before. And I think, regardless of what sort of platform you are, if you have content, I guarantee you have considerably more of it now than you did five years ago. And then the question is, which is the good content? And good can mean absolutely anything, depending on, for example, where you want to surface that content in thefunnel, the funnel I was just talking about, what you're trying to achieve with this content, how you want someone to feel about this content. So there's a huge challenge around how do you manage your content? Now, the good news is, over the kind of recent years, things like, you know, digital asset managers and content management systems have become more and more sophisticated. And whereas 10 years ago, probably they weren't massively user-friendly. You kind of felt like you needed a group degree in like taxonomy or something like that to be able to really kind of manage this stuff. They get better and better. No question about that. And because it is a need which is just growing in every industry, especially in travel, I think because of so much content being produced. It's fantastic that there are some platforms that you can use. Still, it comes with a whole bunch of questions around how do you manage technical quality? How do you know that you are being consistent? Let's say you have a certain tone of voice guidelines, style guidelines, et cetera, that you want to apply across all of your content. How do I know that this is being applied correctly across all of my content? Particularly, as I mentioned, we have lots of different types of content now in the funnel, different stages of the funnel, some experiential, some very much kind of product-driven. How do we drive consistency across all of that? And then indeed, how do we make sure that we have the right classification, metadata, et cetera, around all of this content so that we can surface it in the right places? So I mean, definitely, the world of content is radically different from even 10 years ago. It is exciting. It's a little daunting. And the fundamental challenge we have is simply managing quality and volume. That's the way I see it.

Mike: I mean, you have a wealth of experience in putting in place the systems and putting in place the teams.

Chris: I've tried.

Mike: I mean, do you think there are some pitfalls that you've seen or you've encountered yourself in your career or, you know, must-do's?

Chris: Yeah. I see when it comes to things like content management, I see a lot of people with only half an idea as to ultimately what they want to achieve with it. And by which I mean, they know how they were operating. They know how they want to operate today. They're not necessarily aware of how they should be operating three years from now. So I see a little bit of people get a tiny bit paralyzed, maybe, because they know how they want to organize things today, but they're not quite sure how it's going to evolve in the future.

Mike: I want to just run off of your last point on sort of the being paralyzed and sort of thinking about the last three years and the current year and not necessarily the next three years. What do you think contributes to that, maybe on a macro level or maybe it's on a micro level within a company? Or what are the contributing factors to it?

Chris: I think two or three things. First of all, it's how the nature of marketing is evolving. I think these days, people are pretty comfortable with the idea that there's going to be brand marketing, there's going to be performance marketing, et cetera, affiliate marketing. But how is that going to evolve in the future? And what sort of formats are going to play well in the future? And sometimes, by the way, it comes downto if you take some of the larger advertising platforms like Facebook or Google or something like that, what are they going to support in the future? Is it that Google suddenly really wants video content or how long is that video content going to be? What sort of content is Facebook going to want to kind of push? And again, what sort of format is it going to be in? And how do I run experiments on these platforms, et cetera? So I think that's one of the things that kind of contributes to complexity. How does social media fit into all of this? How does the kind of organic versus inorganic play in all of this? How should we be partnering with other content creators to get some sort of brand extension I think plays into it as well. It's a more complex space than it ever has been. Because literally, you know, like 10 years ago, I was worrying about do we have the right photos of the right hotels in the context of booking? And these days, it's a myriad of things to worry about around content. It's no longer the right photo in the right time at the right channel to the right person. If you want to head in the direction of personalization and really kind of finding the most perfect kind of customer product fit, personalization can be incredibly powerful there. What on earth does that mean for content? It is challenging to build long-term plans when you don't know what tech is going to look like two, three years from now. And that's something I've come up against several times in my career. I think I'm making the right investments. I think we're thinking in the right way. But is it ambitious enough? Or am I overestimating how powerful, how much we'll be able to do with tech in the future? That's something that you're always thinking about as a content leader.

Mike: I think from my experience interacting with you, you're great with people. It seems that you love people and love people's stories. So I would love to hear about sort of the human side of the content. I mean, you have experience establishing teams of hundreds of people, 400 or 500 people across 50 different places at one time to specifically just manage content and deliver on content. What are some of the joys of doing that that you've faced in your career? And what are some of the challenges and learnings from that as well?

Chris: I mean, the challenges are relatively obvious when you're running a global operation. You have the time zones, which means that a lot of your communication is going to be asynchronous, which means that sometimes some decisions can take a little bit longer or they can be a bit frustrating maybe for people in, you know, let's say Asia Pacific or in the Americas because they can't feel that they're on exactly the same page. It can be, there are going to be a lot of cultural nuances in the mix. And just because a decision is really good in the context of, I don't know, Europe, let's say, doesn't mean that it is going to be great in the context of Latin America. So you're really trying to understand how certain decisions are going to land in different parts of the world and you want to listen to people, but at the same time you're trying to find scalable solutions which apply to an entire platform. And at the same time, you know, you're trying to communicate strategy and get feedback on strategy and communicate changes and get feedback on changes and really kind of engage in a dialogue, but with an awful lot of people. And that's really cool. I absolutely love it, but, you know, that's kind of one of the obvious challenges. Plus also the fact that, I mean, if you look at, you know, around the world, different markets also use different platforms. You know, if you look at like social media, I mean, it's, you know, which is the most popular social media platform in different markets can look different. So that for sure poses some interesting challenges. The plus side, I mean, I do like people. I like people. I find people fascinating. And I learned something from every interaction. And therefore having the chance to interact with like hundreds of people around the world has been a huge privilege. It's actually something that's relatively consistent. If I think about itmy entire career, one of the, again, the red threads in my career, whichever environment I've worked in, it's always been incredibly international. And that matters to me an awful lot. The idea of actually just being stuck in a business just with a bunch of Chrises who look and behave and sound like me, that's very unappealing. No offense to British people.

Mike: I think that the future of content is interesting, not because content's interesting, maybe because humans are interesting. You've been encountering humans and the buying habits are different from country to country, but even city to city, to family to family, individual to individual. And I think that sort of human buying experience is a challenge but also an opportunity for a lot of brands to cater to. I'd be interested to hear what you think if personalization, content, what that looks like or what's exciting in there in your mind.

Chris: So the personalization topic I've been obsessed with now for a few years, and I'm still trying to make up my mind as to what extent it's desirable. Let me explain what I mean because I do have multiple thoughts on this topic. If you think of a brand, let's go with Coca-Cola. It could literally be any of those kind of big, super famous, super well-known brands with a real kind of global footprint. Fundamentally, you want it to be the same product everywhere you go. The color schemes, the typefaces, the way it's kind of presented fundamentally doesn't change. Probably something like Coca-Cola. I can't speak specific knowledge here at all. I have no specific insight, but I'm going to assume that they really do not want to flex the brand too much because this is what it stands for, and they want to be recognized on their own terms. Doesn't mean that you can't personalize a little bit the marketing, and you should localize. I think localization, and we're not just talking about linguistic localization, but also understanding how does that bottle of Coca-Cola fit into the lives of people in this particular country? When are they going to drink it? When are they going to want this? Is this a celebratory thing? Is it a daily thing? That's kind of super important, and that's very much just how you position a particular product in a particular market. You do the linguistic localization. Probably there's a degree of personalization around that, but it's relatively limited because fundamentally the brand doesn't want to flex. And again, I'm not speaking on behalf of Coca-Cola here. Who knows? But that would be my kind of guess. But then there are some products, of course, and particularly in e-commerce where potentially you can flex an awful lot more. And also, you're having real-time data around the interaction of the consumer with the product, and therefore you can, in theory, tailor an awful lot more. Now, I always loved the idea when I was in booking. I discussed it many, many times to what extent should we be really kind of personalizing suggestions. Amazon is the one I always kind of point to there. I mean, they're incredibly good at personalizing their suggestions on the basis of your kind of previous buying behavior. Of course, Amazon's a very high-touch platform. There are many people who are going to be using it on a very regular basis, and therefore they can build up a really good data profile. Travel's a little different. People don't travel quite so often. So I think there it's probably a little more challenging to build up an Amazon-type data profile that would allow for very, very deep personalization. However, there have to be differences between, you know, someone who's traveling solo on business to someone who's traveling on a honeymoon, someone who's traveling with family, you know, with young kids versus old kids, et cetera. I mean, these are all kind of quite different profiles and different needs. So I think it is very, very interesting to really think about how do you serve content that's meaningful, that's engaging for those kind of profiles, let's call them, personas, et cetera. But at the same time, sometimes there is a brand in themix, and you really want to hang on to the brand because the brand has to stand for something because maybe it's existed for, you know, decades or centuries, and, you know, that matters. So this is what I find extremely interesting, and I think the best way of kind of bridging that gap is technology that allows us to do, yes, through metadata, through, you know, really good kind of customer profiling, to be able to build a really effective bridge that allows us to connect a brand with people and also expose the elements of the brand that matters most through content to the right audience. Does that make sense?

Mike: It does make sense. And what I think is interesting is in the travel industry, lots of times you'll see groups, sort of, you see the consolidation within a group or hotel groups and acquisitions essentially to have a brand that serves the different tiers and types of travelers. Right, yeah. And so they don't have to dilute one brand and deliver... They can deliver a certain type of content to another brand and serve that segment.

Chris: Yeah, absolutely. Would make sense completely, and I guess that's why, you know, the kind of larger hotel groups or hospitality groups have multiple brands because they want to target their product to very specific people or cost content and I think they should support that, right? Should support the selection process or the inspiration process, the decision-making process and ultimately the transaction process and then the in-person experience too.

Mike: What do you feel... I mean, I know that in your career that you've been an advocate for technology, for new tech. You've implemented it in different ways successfully. I'm sure unsuccessfully at times as well. In terms of the future of the industry and tech, if I were... If you were, you know, a content manager of a global brand at this point in time, what would be the questions you'd be asking yourself about, I guess, AI or machine learning and all these things?

Chris:Yeah, we said we touched a little bit upon generative AI and machine learning and obviously, I mean, they're slightly different things with slightly different applications. I think machine learning value almost certainly lies in the personalization or indeed making something, a product fit for a particular brand. You can input the parameters that matter to you and make sure then that all of your content is, for example, consistent with these parameters. With generative AI, of course, you're creating things which are then going to be consistent with these parameters. I think I'm going to be asking, how does ML allow me to manage scale more effectively? I think that's incredibly important and we discussed already, you know, more and more content is being produced and this is no longer a thing that can be managed solely with humans. You can probably still have a few experts and specialists in the process to really kind of do kind of quality assessment and things like that, but the reality is you're going to have to rely more and more on algorithms, on, you know, machine learning models, et cetera, to kind of govern police. Police, I never really liked the word, but I think you understand what I mean. I mean, you know, sometimes there are guidelines which have to be adhered to. We have to impose some sort of structure on the content.

Mike: Stewardship?

Chris: Stewardship is much nicer, much nicer way of kind of phrasing it. So I think that's the kind of ML side. I think ML is going to be incredibly helpful for that and also, I mean, I've talked a couple of times about, you know, kind of tagging, classification, metadata.I mean, that issomething that's material.The more content you have, the more important it is you can surface the right stuff. ML is incredibly valuable there. So I think those are the sorts of problems that people probably are trying to solve from a content perspective with ML. Generative AI, that ruins the kind of Wild West, right? I mean, this is the new frontier and all the other cliches. It's a couple of years now, I think, since ChatGPT brought out there, you know, the model that made the huge, not even step forward. I think that actually, that was more of a gradual evolution, but I mean, it was more compelling and it really kind of grabbed the headlines, right? And it was the first time that, you know, CEOs of companies are suddenly reading about these things in the Economist or Forbes or something like that.

Mike: Parents and grandparents also.

Chris: Exactly, exactly, right? So it's like a really solid kind of general consumer awareness and suddenly, I think, a couple of years ago, beginning of 2023 in particular, it's like, okay, so what are we doing then with generative AI? And of course, you know, I've seen like in the past year, it's crazy if I look at how music, you know, generative AI, how well that's kind of come forwards leaps and bounds. It's insane some of the stuff I hear now. And if I look at the visual aspect of generative AI, I mean, it's crazy. I do quite a lot of drawing. I really enjoy drawing. So I always used to love drawing, like, you know, birthday cards and things like that. I just can't help but prompt something. And I'll come up with something much more kind of visually compelling and much more interesting that I can then send someone, which is a little bit tragic. But at the same time, it produces really kind of fun stuff. The other question for me, though, is, you know, if I'm sending someone a birthday message, this is pretty low stakes. It's something which is just kind of fun and celebratory and it can be whatever. It doesn't matter. I'm not selling this. The question is, can you use artificially generated visual content in, for example, a sales process to sell a product? And I'm really intrigued by this. And almost certainly the answer will be, yes, you can, but only with the right parameters and safeguards around it.

Mike: Maybe the right context as well.

Chris: Exactly, exactly, exactly. And look, I'm sure also that, you know, consumer tolerance of these things will evolve in coming years. But I see a lot of skepticism. I see more and more content on, you know, Instagram where people are like, is this artificially generated or not? There's a degree of confusion. And we've already seen a lot of, you know, kind of like deepfakes. We've seen a lot of that stuff circulating, um, election campaigns, et cetera, et cetera, you know, wherever they are in the world, they will surface all sorts of things, which are, you know, kind of concerning how easily people can do this. So, so there is an interesting question around trust, authenticity, authenticity in content. That's, I suspect that's never going to go away. And my gut feeling is the answer isn't, you know, a kind of like a, the answer isn't, um, more and more level layers of, um, authentification, like a sort of blockchain type thing, you know, but actually going back to basics, uh, that, that's my gut feeling that it will be a question of going back to photos that have been shot in the right way with the right time. And this is so, it feels such a strange thing to say. This is kind of, it does, it does remind me of content, maybe like kind of 15 years ago, when more even maybe 20, 25 years ago, when you started to see the kind of growth of forums and things like this. And there was this interesting thing where, where you get your news from and it goes from being newspapers. And I'm old enough to remember newspapers and buying newspapers and reading newspapers, uh,where in fact you choose a newspaper that kind of fits your, your perspective on the world a little bit, but fundamentally you, you have a fairly high degree of trust. You know, there's, there's a particular editorial voice and there's a degree of accountability. They have a reputation, uh, to probably about 25 years ago, you know, birth of forums, et cetera, et cetera. And then turning into blogs, turning into, you know, everyone suddenly can kind of create content. And I could see this as soon as you sit in the distance, it's avalanche content and coming towards you. And, you know, we've discussed already, it's going to grow exponentially, exponentially, exponentially. What happens? Eventually you have so much content. My hypothesis was always people will at some point start seeking out quality. I subscribed to a few different kinds of news channels and I'm happy to pay money because I know that I'm getting access to high quality content. That was unthinkable 10, 15 years ago, that people would actually pay for anything to say all the content is free on the internet. Yeah.

Mike: I think 15 years ago you paid with your attention.

Chris: Correct. Well, you're paying with that indirectly. So, my gut feeling is something we're going to go through something similar. I think the quality will always win out. People want something that they can believe in something that they can really kind of trust in. So that's why I think that we'll always see a bit of a kind of return to basics. And by the way, you know, I'll bring it full circle and talk a little bit about book publishing, a book publishing in the past 10 years has been growing and has been doing incredibly well, which is fascinating because many people were kind of predicting the death of the publishing industry. Uh, but in many parts of the publishing industry have been growing significantly. Why? Because at some point people don't want to look at the screens anymore. A beautiful illustrated book or whatever that they can have on their coffee table, they can sit in bed and read. Um, so it's, yeah, there are cycles. But when you get overwhelmed, you will try and cut through the noise and you'll try and find the thing that actually matters to you.

Mike: I think the brands who are able to deliver that content consistently authentically and to the right people that they're trying to talk to are the ones who will win out. Well, I'm not going to take any more of your time.Thank you so much for the conversation. We can do this, I think three, four hours, but we'll stop here and we'll see lots of questions for maybe next time or something. But thank you so much, Chris.

Chris: Thanks Mike.